Um, you do know that this very complex and interesting question has been studied in great detail, and the answers to your questions are readily available, right?

Of course, the answers are pretty complex as well. You might have to do a little bit of research, maybe study up on some things. I understand if you'd rather not go to the trouble. If you like, you can choose to ignore the entire thing, if you think it sounds like too much work. After all, you're a free person.

Anyway, who wants God to be fair? God's standard is absolute perfection. Are you perfect? No. Neither am I. Nobody is perfect. I figure, we're all better off when God lets us slide, gives us another chance to repent.

If I were God, I'd know the past, the future, and the innermost secrets of every human heart. Maybe that's why the real God doesn't always do what seems best to us: He has more information, and knows for sure which course of action will produce the best outcome.

Also, on what sound theological research do you base your assumptions that a) the spiritual will be separated from the physical in the next life, and heaven will be a purely physical environment, with no spiritual aspects? Is it possible you have misread or misinterpreted the relevant passages? Have you considered consulting with the last thousand years or so of philosophers and theological scholars who have looked deeply into this matter? The results of their research can be found in almost any bookstore.

Crime, Violence, Rape, Child Molestation, ect

These very often are learned behavior or have environmental influences.

If you were really god wouldn't it just be more prudent to change the reasons that lead to the evil doers committing their crime, instead of killing them in various ways and letting the cycle continue?

Stutefish,
Thanks for your reply, I always find everyones reply interesting and enjoy reading them.

I recall underneath the subtitle clearly labeling this "Here's My Opinion".... If I would of had lots of theological research put into this I would of provided infomation to back that up. But as it was stated it's my opinion and my own belief system. Honestly this whole blog was started from an email about 9-11 stating how people blame God for letting these things happen. And their proof that God didn't do it was a symbol in the cloud of smoke, a demonic face. I think I briefly mentioned that. Anyway My whole point being is that we tend to rely on God a little bit to much. I was mostly ranting but also trying to make the point that I think we should believe in ourselves more. Instead of blindly believing in some organized religion.

Yes there is lots of Theories and research and blah blah blah probably enough to wrap the world like a pinata. And if there research is so solid why is it still debated... Adam and Eve vs Evolution? On that top logically I'd lean towards evolution... cuz I'd like to think we didn't start from inbreeding. I am certainly not going to spend sleepless nights wondering what really happend, how we really came to be.

As for the spiritual side... my assumption is based on the fact the spirit leaves the body upon death... which is then buried or cremated. Hence good enough proof for me that the body is thus seperated from the spirit. As to taking on another body wouldn't that be reincarnation? As for philosophy and theology... for thousands of years on that topic... thats all fine and dandy, but since they've never died and expierenced death and the spirit form on a first hand basis and then came back to write about it... it's nothing but a theory or an idea when it comes right down to it. Again that's my opinion.

I haven't done any heavy research on anything. I have taken the time to watch the movie what the bleep do we know. They also have it in book. Many sceintist theorys and fascinating thoughts, are covered in that movie/book. www.whatthebleep.com if you want to check it out. I found it fascinating.

As for your suggestion, I think I will go to the bookstore and pick up a few books on theories. It'll definetly be better reading then the common romance novel that I borrow from my room mate when I'm bored. So many things in life that we over look, that have always been at the tip of our fingers.

Thanks again for your post, and feel free to post as many replys as you like.

you sound very bitter and very angry. You got issues. That's my opinion

God's standard is absolute perfection. Are you perfect? No. Neither am I. Nobody is perfect.

No one ever answers my question, and here it is again. How is it possible for imperfection to arise from perfection?

No one ever answers my question, and here it is again. How is it possible for imperfection to arise from perfection?

Ockham, some things are considered imperfect only because we choose to label them as imperfect. “Imperfect” is a subjective notion, but from the Divine point of view, that which we humans might consider “imperfect” might not be imperfect at all.

If God, the Creator, is perfect, then anything which seems “imperfect” to us will have a higher purpose for being created that way, (i.e. a perfectly good purpose), even though that purpose might elude us. It follows that from God’s point of view, in context with the bigger picture, nothing is imperfect at all.

What really is in God’s hands?

Everything is in God’s hands, in the sense that God devised the whole system in the first place. God’s compassionate embrace sustains and underlies everything, and the divine Spirit intimately shares and experiences in everything. Jesus’ crucifixion discloses that God intimately shares in the world’s tribulation and pain. The resurrection demonstrates that death is conquered once and for all, and that eternal life - not death - is the Real Thing.

“In the world you will have tribulation. But be of good cheer. I have overcome the world.” – Jesus, (John 16.33)

Maybe if we as a people understood that 'No it's really not in God's hands', we wouldn't be such dumb little lemmings that follow eachother off the cliff, with out even thinking.

How about this... When you have a friend or anyone that's going through a hard time, save the energy and time you'd spend praying for them, and actually help them. So if your my friend and in a hard time... You'll hear me say, I'm here for you, if theres anything I can do I'll help, let me know.

Everything is in God’s hands, and it’s in our highest interests to think for ourselves, to help our brothers and sisters, to love one another as ourself. God has put us here for a positive and all-loving purpose, and has allowed His children to embark on a journey, which spans many lifetimes – in the Heavenly and earthly planes. We left Paradise in order to taste the fruits of good and evil, because such fruit fosters growth, learning and strength.

We'll if things really are truely in God's hands whats the point of trying in life anyway?

The endeavour of cultivating spiritual wealth, and attempts to exercise compassion and inner-muscle as much as we can, increases the quality of our inner experience in this world and the next, (especially in the next.) To strive to become a more integrated and inwardly secure soul is something that’s worth trying for.

Those damn people that blew up the Twin Towers... I would of just pulled of a miraculous lighting storm that struck there van and killed them all as they were pulling up.

God provides the beloved with freedom, and allows His children to walk their own path. Due to the risks and vulnerabilities of love’s ‘letting go’, we ought not be surprised to find suffering and tragedy occurring throughout life’s unfolding and growth. Sometimes God’s children can get misguided and wander off course. They can mistake principles such as greed, aggression, or terrorism as “power”.

But love is the greatest power in the universe, and these souls’ corrupt perception of power is really a weakness. ‘Cause and effect’ is a true law in life, and sooner or later they’ll reap exactly what they sow. Nobody can escape the laws of karma, and even though these misguided souls can seem to get away with it in this life, rest assured they’ll have to pay off their debts sooner or later.

(As was noted on another thread: )

The quality of our inner-experience in the afterlife is determined generally by the amount of spiritual wealth we have accumulated on our journey so far. People who have deliberately caused much evil on earth, like Hitler, will experience an inner feeling of darkness and guilt when they arrive in Heaven. They will see the bigger picture and will be aware of the consequences of their actions to others and to their own soul. Their inner-burden will be painful, and oftentimes Higher Forces - with compassionate intentions – will impel these misguided souls to incarnate back to earth, or to another physical planet, in an attempt to `burn off' their negative karma. This is what is meant by “karmic debt”. (It is difficult to balance out negative karma in Heaven, because the challenges don't exist there.) Maybe the paedophile will have to experience abuse as a child, firsthand, in order to balance out their karma.

But even the terrorists, the murderers and rapists are loved unconditionally by our Heavenly Father. When we learn that Hitler will one day become an enlightened, wise, and integrated, soul, (even if it’s in eons and eons time) – more so because of his exploits in his lifetime as Adolf Hitler rather than in spite of it - then we will have a better understanding of the depth and epic scope of the life-plan, all of which is in God’s hands.

No one ever answers my question, and here it is again. How is it possible for imperfection to arise from perfection?

Ockham, some things are considered imperfect only because we choose to label them as imperfect. “Imperfect” is a subjective notion, but from the Divine point of view, that which we humans might consider “imperfect” might not be imperfect at all.

If God, the Creator, is perfect and all-powerful, then anything which seems “imperfect” to us will have a higher purpose for being created that way, (i.e. a perfectly good purpose), even though its purpose might elude us. It follows that from God’s point of view, in context with the bigger picture, nothing is imperfect at all.

What really is in God’s hands?

Everything is in God’s hands, in the sense that God devised the whole system in the first place. God’s compassionate embrace sustains and underlies everything, and the divine Spirit intimately shares and experiences in everything. (Jesus’ crucifixion discloses that God intimately shares in the world’s tribulation and pain. The resurrection demonstrates that death is conquered once and for all, and that eternal life - not death - is the real thing.)

As Jesus said, “In the world you will have tribulation. But be of good cheer. I have overcome the world.”

Maybe if we as a people understood that 'No it's really not in God's hands', we wouldn't be such dumb little lemmings that follow eachother off the cliff, with out even thinking.

How about this... When you have a friend or anyone that's going through a hard time, save the energy and time you'd spend praying for them, and actually help them. So if your my friend and in a hard time... You'll hear me say, I'm here for you, if theres anything I can do I'll help, let me know.

Everything is in God’s hands, and it’s in our highest interests to think for ourselves, to help our brothers and sisters, to love one another as ourself. God has put us here for a positive and all-loving purpose, and has allowed His children to embark on an epic journey, which spans many lifetimes – in the Heavenly and earthly planes. (Incidentally, we left Paradise in order to taste the fruits of good and evil, which fosters more growth, more learning and more strength.)

We'll if things really are truely in God's hands whats the point of trying in life anyway?

The endeavour of cultivating spiritual wealth, and attempts to exercise compassion and inner-muscle as much as we can, increases the quality of our inner experience in this world and the next, (especially in the next.) To strive to become a more integrated and inwardly secure soul is something that’s worth trying for. This doesn't mean to strive to be 'goody-goody', incidentally. It means to try to learn to love ourself unconditionally, regardless of how 'bad' or moody we think we are. As we learn to love ourself unconditionally, we naturally fulfil the divine law to love one another as ourself.

Those damn people that blew up the Twin Towers... I would of just pulled of a miraculous lighting storm that struck there van and killed them all as they were pulling up.

God provides the beloved with freedom, and allows His children to walk their own path. Due to the risks and vulnerabilities of love’s ‘letting go’, we ought not be surprised to find suffering and tragedy occurring throughout life’s unfolding and growth. Sometimes God’s children can get misguided and wander off course. They can mistake principles such as greed, aggression, or terrorism as “power”.

But love is the greatest power in the universe, and these souls’ corrupt perception of power is really a weakness. ‘Cause and effect’ is a true law in life, and sooner or later they’ll reap exactly what they sow. Nobody can escape the laws of karma, and even though these misguided souls can seem to get away with it in this life, rest assured they’ll have to pay off their debts sooner or later.

(As was noted on another thread: )

The quality of our inner-experience in the afterlife is determined generally by the amount of spiritual wealth we have accumulated on our journey so far. People who have deliberately caused much evil on earth, like Hitler, will experience an inner feeling of darkness and guilt when they arrive in Heaven. They will see the bigger picture and will be aware of the consequences of their actions to others and to their own soul. Their inner-burden will be painful, and oftentimes Higher Forces - with compassionate intentions – will impel these misguided souls to incarnate back to earth, or to another physical planet, in an attempt to `burn off' their negative karma. This is what is meant by “karmic debt”. (It is difficult to balance out negative karma in Heaven, because the challenges don't exist there.) Maybe the paedophile will have to experience abuse as a child, firsthand, in order to balance out their karma.

But even the terrorists, the murderers and rapists are loved unconditionally by our Heavenly Father. When we can learn that Hitler will one day become an enlightened, wise, and integrated soul - more so because of his exploits in his lifetime as Adolf Hitler rather than in spite of it - (even if this takes eons and eons to get there), then we will have a better understanding of the depth and epic scope of the divine plan, all of which is in God’s hands.

(What happened there? I thought I've been editing one post)

The difference between Heaven and Hell is quite simple. Heaven is a place where you can still exist in the glory of Him. Hell is where you are removed from God's sight...no love, no joy, nothing but the darkest emotions course through your consciousness.

~Zoo

Hell is where you are removed from God's sight...no love, no joy, nothing but the darkest emotions course through your consciousness

Zoologist, do you believe that hell will be experienced by a soul for ever and ever, without a chance in the afterlife to escape it or be redeemed?

Ockham, some things are considered imperfect only because we choose to label them as imperfect. “Imperfect” is a subjective notion, but from the Divine point of view, that which we humans might consider “imperfect” might not be imperfect at all. If God, the Creator, is perfect and all-powerful, then anything which seems “imperfect” to us will have a higher purpose for being created that way, (i.e. a perfectly good purpose), even though its purpose might elude us. It follows that from God’s point of view, in context with the bigger picture, nothing is imperfect at all.

Uh yeah...that was exactly my point. It was a rhetorical question. Sometimes I feel like I'm dropping a needle on an AndyBaker album or putting a quarter into the AndyBaker machine.

Since all the gods that are dead (may they live forever) are unknown, unknowable, and utterly indifferent to anything we say, do, think, feel, desire, hope for, fear, or dread, each and every one of you is talking out of his, hers, or its ass. All of these questions are forever beyond any answer other than "I haven't got a fucking clue" because there is no place outside of ourselves and the limitations of our existence where something we might call truth could be known.

All truths are true and there is no true truth - but there is an endless supply of opinion, masquerading as fact.

There is no true truth - but there is an endless supply of opinion, masquerading as fact.

I agree with the latter part, but disagree with first part. The fact that something exists, rather than nothing at all, demonstrates there is an ‘Ultimate Truth’. How much our opinions, thoughts, feelings, hopes or dreads etc, are aligned with 'What Is So', depends on our degree of enlightenment, (which I believe is determined by our level of spiritual growth.)

All of these questions are forever beyond any answer other than "I haven't got a fucking clue" because there is no place outside of ourselves and the limitations of our existence where something we might call truth could be known.

In my opinion, that’s not true from the point of view of our heart, which, deep down, already knows “the Truth”. (That’s my subjective point of view. We’ve already discussed principles of subjectivity vs. objectivity in other threads, so I won’t repeat here.)

Sometimes I feel like I'm dropping a needle on an AndyBaker album or putting a quarter into the AndyBaker machine

You’re right dude. It’s all been the same discussion. But it’s a hearty one. There comes a time when we can be silent, and a greater peace can come from silence. In the meantime, it’s all fun and games, and nothing really matters, ultimately. In my opinion an "enlightened view" is a liberating view, and life is somewhat good.

You’re right dude. It’s all been the same discussion.

What I meant is that based on what you know of my views, you might have known what I said was a rhetorical question IF you'd thought about it a nanosecond AND IF you've been actually considering things I've said in the past, but instead it was just a point at which the AndyBaker machine could resume producing from its vast library of pre-recorded content. I suppose that if you are a highly subjective person (which is fine, no rehash from me either) that there's no way for you to consider what others say. If what others say does not also eminate from YOUR heart of hearts, then how can it be real?

You sound programmed - like you enter the discussion already knowing all the answers and are only here to spew them forth when we push the AndyBaker button. If that's true, it's disappointing. I had previously given you more credit - an ability to step OUT of your subjective views to discuss topics on a common ground that doesn't admit one person's reality to the subjugation of anothers'. I hope to find out how wrong that is.

You sound programmed - like you enter the discussion already knowing all the answers and are only here to spew them forth when we push the AndyBaker button

I know what you mean Okham. I don't like reading my own posts, because they make me cringe. But I'm entering the discussion knowing my own points of view, and those views shape what I write. Sometimes they can sound programmed, and sometimes they can sound dogmatic, but that's only because I'm sure about my views. It's not true to say I think I know all the answers, because only God knows all of them. I've already said that I think (and know in my own head), that I'm psychic, which means that some of my answers will stem beyond a 'normal' perception of reality. I treat these perceptions as fact. (For example, the principle that Heaven awaits us beyond the veil of death, and that we freely choose to incarnate in different lifetimes on earth, is a view to me that is correctly aligned with 'what is so'. (There I go again, sounding like a programmed robot.) Even though to other people, such views might sound like wishful thinking.)

I had previously given you more credit - an ability to step OUT of your subjective views to discuss topics on a common ground that doesn't admit one person's reality to the subjugation of anothers'. I hope to find out how wrong that is.

I don't know what you mean here dude. All I've done is attempted to answer your question, . . .

No one ever answers my question, and here it is again. How is it possible for imperfection to arise from perfection?

. . . I thought it was a good answer, but obviously you disagree?

I suppose that if you are a highly subjective person (which is fine, no rehash from me either) that there's no way for you to consider what others say. If what others say does not also eminate from YOUR heart of hearts, then how can it be real?

I do consider what other people say. At the end of the day, we're all subjective people. As I said in our very first discussion, many months ago, (I keep all good discussions saved in a Word document, because they're interesting to come back to):

"Our human interpretation of anything ‘objective’ is necessarily subjective. This is because our conclusions are necessarily drawn from a finite well of subjectivity (i.e. our human mind). Whilst 'the objective' remains the same, our interpretations and views of it are subjective. Some people’s interpretations of ‘the objective’ will be more aligned with ‘what is so’ than others. For instance, a person who believes that the world is round, would hold an interpretation that is more aligned with “the truth” than a person who believes that the world is flat. "


Oh dear, this is too much like an old record. Apologies friend lad, but I'm trying to clear up these points of view.